With all due respect, Major
Mar. 20th, 2005 02:46 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sperrywink_ljAfter getting a bug in my butt on Friday night about Bates and Grodin I spent all of yesterday watching Atlantis episodes looking for them and cataloguing the information. After 12 episodes, 15 pages of dialogue transcriptions, 2 pages of my own notes and about 8 hours, what are my conclusions?
Apparently there is a time-space continuum paradox in having them on in the same episode- this was discovered with their negligible interactions in the pilot and all future interactions were suspended:
Here is the breakdown episode by episode for the first 12 episodes. If the episode gave some indication of how much time has passed (that I caught- I mostly fast-forwarded through scenes where it was impossible for Bates or Grodin to show up), I included it in parentheses after the episode title. In the first line after the title, I indicate whether Bates or Grodin appear in the episode. Most of my dialogue quotes center on Bates. He is a lesser character and more confrontational then Grodin so it was easier. Grodin does a lot of scientific or operations exposition- valuable information, but not necessarily illuminative for his character or his interactions with the others.
The Rising:
Both Grodin and Bates.
They are in the same scene twice:
In the gate departure room when they all go to Atlantis and then cross over to Atlantis- they do not interact on screen.
At the very end party scene. They are in the background in a group of 5-6 people talking in a circle as the camera zooms out in the final shot.
ETA: After even more obsessive watching and talking it over with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
coreopsis it looks like Bates may be in the next group over from the one with Grodin. Bummer. So close and yet still so far.
Other notable stuff:
Grodin speaks Spanish to other scientists preparing for departure.
Bates is the one who Col. Sumner tells 'That's what your sidearm is for.' when Beckett is demanding more time to prepare for departure.
Bates is clicking other soldier's pack buckles in the background and is the one who buckles Col. Sumner after his altercation with Sheppard.
Bates does not clap when Chevron 8 encodes and the Pegasus wormhole engages.
Bates is in Col. Sumner's Security Team 1.
Grodin crosses through the wormhole holding a small handheld flashlight.
Grodin is the one who whispers to McKay about the power drain throughout the city.
Bates is the one with the rocket-launcher who is freaked out by the Wraith shadows, but shoots the Dart out of the sky before he is beamed up and taken prisoner.
Notable dialogue:
Sheppard: Bates we are on the go.
Bates (radio): So are we. Colonel Sumner?
Sheppard: Negative.
Hide and Seek: (only been a couple of days)
Grodin Only.
Grodin talks to Weir about setting up living quarters, security, and activation status of various areas. Seems to be acting as head of operations for the base.
Grodin is the one who punches McKay without hesitation upon request.
(notable absence: Bates is NOT in the initial meetings about security- Just Sheppard, McKay, Weir and Teyla in the one on-screen. Sheppard seems to personally be heading security of the base at this time.)
Grodin orchestrates fail-safe code for senior personnel. Sheppard thinks they should share the codes with Teyla. Weir nixes that idea.
Notable Dialogue:
Grodin:...desalinating the sea water and storing it in tanks big enough to supply the whole city.
Weir: Good. So fresh water won't be a problem.
Grodin: It seems some Ancient technology requires the user to have the gene and other things merely require initialization. Once activated like the control room, anyone can push a button to make it work.
Gento: Good morning, Dr. Weir.
Weir: Good morning. Careful! I think we need to designate some recreational areas.
Grodin: Yes.
Weir: And we certainly need to clear the hallways and get everything put away as soon as possible. And can we loose the 10,000 year old dead plants?
Grodin: Of course. We are still in the process of making sure everyone's been assigned living quarters. Major Sheppard seems to be taking his time okaying enough space.
Weir: Well the safety and security of this expedition are his...
38 Minutes:
Grodin Only.
Grodin is with the Base scientists who are trying to brainstorm a solution.
Suspicion: (Weir: The Althosians have been here 3 months)
Bates Only.
I was joking withcoreopsis about making a Bates icon that says, "When I say sir, I mean asshole. Sir." and I was only 1/2 serious since I wasn't clear how true it was. After this episode refreshed my memory, with Sheppard continually blocking him on security? He definitely means asshole.
Notable dialogue:
Bates: That's the absolute minimum we should do. If Colonel Sumner were still...
Sheppard: He's not. I am.
Bates: Yes sir.
*****
Bates: She was conveniently absent during the ambush.
McKay: So was Ford! Maybe it was him.
Bates: I'm just stating a fact, sir.
Sheppard: Sgt., I am only going to say this once...
Bates: With all due respect Major, you can reprimand me if you want but it has been 6 times your team has been compromised. Only one Althosian knew about the last mission.
*****
Sheppard: If she was helping the Wraith why bother bringing Ford back. In fact, why bother coming back at all?
Bates: She is of more use to them here in Atlantis. As for apparently rescuing Ford...
Sheppard: She carried him through the damn gate, what is apparent about that?
Bates: He is unconscious, sir, we still don't know what happened.
Sheppard: Oh, that's enough.
Bates: It is my job to express security concerns, sir.
Sheppard: I've heard enough of your concerns.
Bates: Again with all due respect, Major, I believe you are putting your personal feelings in front of...
Sheppard: You are dismissed.
Bates: Yes sir.
Weir: I'm the one who put him in charge of security. (Since he wasn't in the initial security meetings, sometime AFTER Hide and Seek)
Sheppard: Yes you did. And if you want to dismiss me, go ahead.
Weir: Why don't you go and see how Lt. Ford is doing?
****
McKay: You want me to go through her stuff?
Bates: We are looking for weapons, transmitters, recording devices, anything that looks like it is beyond the Althosians' level of technology.
McKay: And if I don't find anything, do we move on to a strip search?
Bates: Just do it. (This is as verbally disrespectful as Bates gets in this episode. And except for the one under-the-breath comment about Teyla, his non-verbal disrespect is confined to glaring and stony stares. It is funny how everyone reacts as if he is much more over-the-top and unreasonable.)
****
This is an interesting episode in hindsight when you just focus on Bates. Weir definitely uses him to play bad cop so that she can remain sympathetic to everyone else. He asks the obnoxious things she wants to know. She lets him go on with his interrogations and questionings with only the occasional outraged look, while still never verbally reeling him in. My question is how aware is he of this subsidiary role for Weir? In some of his questioning, is he asking as head of security or because he suspects these are the questions Weir wants the answer to?
Bates is really deadpan and only obliquely confrontational. His interrogation style consists of stating simple facts and then just *blandly staring* at people. And they blow up at him because they know or assume they know what he *means*. The funny thing is that if no one over-reacted, and instead said 'Okay, I don't agree that it is an Althosian or anyone, but I do agree that something hinky is going on, what can we do to discover what that is?' things would run much smoother and they would have probably discovered the transmitter earlier. Now, by the end of the episode, Bates does have a bug up his butt about Teyla with this leaking over into the Althosians as a whole incidentally. My guess is that he was uncomfortable with her being included in an away team (or included so early with so little known about the Althosians at the start) and Sheppard's complete disregard for *facts* about the security leak just exacerbated it.
Childhood's End:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
Poisoning The Well: (Sheppard to Steve: We've been having these conversations for a couple weeks now)
Bates only.
Bates is guarding Steve and Weir mentions that he goes to the other planet (Hoffyn? Something with an H) to coordinate the move of Steve there for their testing of the Wraith blocking drug.
Underground:
Grodin Only.
Grodin is the one working on decrypting the Wraith data they stole from the Genii.
Notable Dialogue:
Weir: You might be happy to know that Sgt. Bates was able to broker a small trade agreement for food while you were gone.
Sheppard: Oh, he did, did he.
Weir: Yes, he did, but it's not a competition.
Sheppard: So who are these people?
Weir: They're traders. They call themselves the Manarians (spelling?). I'm sorry you weren't able to find the allies you were looking for John.
Weir is such a sly bitch. She likes Bates and Sheppard at odds. This is also the first mention of Bates leading an additional Away Team as well as heading base security.
Home:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
The Storm:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
If I have heard the name correctly, the world that Sheppard and Ford strong-arm into accepting the Atlantis refugees (Manarians- spelling?) is the world that Weir says Bates brokered the food trade agreement with in Underground.
The Eye:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
The Defiant One:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
Part II for Episodes 13-18 is here.
(Part III for Episodes 18-20 located here.)
Finally, my Windows Media Player doesn't let me do screen-caps of video files and my WinDVD which does screen-cap plays the sound but not the video for the same files so I can't capture pictures of Bates or Grodin and maybe hug them and squeeze them and icon them and call them George.
Bastages.
Apparently there is a time-space continuum paradox in having them on in the same episode- this was discovered with their negligible interactions in the pilot and all future interactions were suspended:
Here is the breakdown episode by episode for the first 12 episodes. If the episode gave some indication of how much time has passed (that I caught- I mostly fast-forwarded through scenes where it was impossible for Bates or Grodin to show up), I included it in parentheses after the episode title. In the first line after the title, I indicate whether Bates or Grodin appear in the episode. Most of my dialogue quotes center on Bates. He is a lesser character and more confrontational then Grodin so it was easier. Grodin does a lot of scientific or operations exposition- valuable information, but not necessarily illuminative for his character or his interactions with the others.
The Rising:
Both Grodin and Bates.
They are in the same scene twice:
In the gate departure room when they all go to Atlantis and then cross over to Atlantis- they do not interact on screen.
At the very end party scene. They are in the background in a group of 5-6 people talking in a circle as the camera zooms out in the final shot.
ETA: After even more obsessive watching and talking it over with
coreopsis it looks like Bates may be in the next group over from the one with Grodin. Bummer. So close and yet still so far.Other notable stuff:
Grodin speaks Spanish to other scientists preparing for departure.
Bates is the one who Col. Sumner tells 'That's what your sidearm is for.' when Beckett is demanding more time to prepare for departure.
Bates is clicking other soldier's pack buckles in the background and is the one who buckles Col. Sumner after his altercation with Sheppard.
Bates does not clap when Chevron 8 encodes and the Pegasus wormhole engages.
Bates is in Col. Sumner's Security Team 1.
Grodin crosses through the wormhole holding a small handheld flashlight.
Grodin is the one who whispers to McKay about the power drain throughout the city.
Bates is the one with the rocket-launcher who is freaked out by the Wraith shadows, but shoots the Dart out of the sky before he is beamed up and taken prisoner.
Notable dialogue:
Sheppard: Bates we are on the go.
Bates (radio): So are we. Colonel Sumner?
Sheppard: Negative.
Hide and Seek: (only been a couple of days)
Grodin Only.
Grodin talks to Weir about setting up living quarters, security, and activation status of various areas. Seems to be acting as head of operations for the base.
Grodin is the one who punches McKay without hesitation upon request.
(notable absence: Bates is NOT in the initial meetings about security- Just Sheppard, McKay, Weir and Teyla in the one on-screen. Sheppard seems to personally be heading security of the base at this time.)
Grodin orchestrates fail-safe code for senior personnel. Sheppard thinks they should share the codes with Teyla. Weir nixes that idea.
Notable Dialogue:
Grodin:...desalinating the sea water and storing it in tanks big enough to supply the whole city.
Weir: Good. So fresh water won't be a problem.
Grodin: It seems some Ancient technology requires the user to have the gene and other things merely require initialization. Once activated like the control room, anyone can push a button to make it work.
Gento: Good morning, Dr. Weir.
Weir: Good morning. Careful! I think we need to designate some recreational areas.
Grodin: Yes.
Weir: And we certainly need to clear the hallways and get everything put away as soon as possible. And can we loose the 10,000 year old dead plants?
Grodin: Of course. We are still in the process of making sure everyone's been assigned living quarters. Major Sheppard seems to be taking his time okaying enough space.
Weir: Well the safety and security of this expedition are his...
38 Minutes:
Grodin Only.
Grodin is with the Base scientists who are trying to brainstorm a solution.
Suspicion: (Weir: The Althosians have been here 3 months)
Bates Only.
I was joking with
coreopsis about making a Bates icon that says, "When I say sir, I mean asshole. Sir." and I was only 1/2 serious since I wasn't clear how true it was. After this episode refreshed my memory, with Sheppard continually blocking him on security? He definitely means asshole.Notable dialogue:
Bates: That's the absolute minimum we should do. If Colonel Sumner were still...
Sheppard: He's not. I am.
Bates: Yes sir.
*****
Bates: She was conveniently absent during the ambush.
McKay: So was Ford! Maybe it was him.
Bates: I'm just stating a fact, sir.
Sheppard: Sgt., I am only going to say this once...
Bates: With all due respect Major, you can reprimand me if you want but it has been 6 times your team has been compromised. Only one Althosian knew about the last mission.
*****
Sheppard: If she was helping the Wraith why bother bringing Ford back. In fact, why bother coming back at all?
Bates: She is of more use to them here in Atlantis. As for apparently rescuing Ford...
Sheppard: She carried him through the damn gate, what is apparent about that?
Bates: He is unconscious, sir, we still don't know what happened.
Sheppard: Oh, that's enough.
Bates: It is my job to express security concerns, sir.
Sheppard: I've heard enough of your concerns.
Bates: Again with all due respect, Major, I believe you are putting your personal feelings in front of...
Sheppard: You are dismissed.
Bates: Yes sir.
Weir: I'm the one who put him in charge of security. (Since he wasn't in the initial security meetings, sometime AFTER Hide and Seek)
Sheppard: Yes you did. And if you want to dismiss me, go ahead.
Weir: Why don't you go and see how Lt. Ford is doing?
****
McKay: You want me to go through her stuff?
Bates: We are looking for weapons, transmitters, recording devices, anything that looks like it is beyond the Althosians' level of technology.
McKay: And if I don't find anything, do we move on to a strip search?
Bates: Just do it. (This is as verbally disrespectful as Bates gets in this episode. And except for the one under-the-breath comment about Teyla, his non-verbal disrespect is confined to glaring and stony stares. It is funny how everyone reacts as if he is much more over-the-top and unreasonable.)
****
This is an interesting episode in hindsight when you just focus on Bates. Weir definitely uses him to play bad cop so that she can remain sympathetic to everyone else. He asks the obnoxious things she wants to know. She lets him go on with his interrogations and questionings with only the occasional outraged look, while still never verbally reeling him in. My question is how aware is he of this subsidiary role for Weir? In some of his questioning, is he asking as head of security or because he suspects these are the questions Weir wants the answer to?
Bates is really deadpan and only obliquely confrontational. His interrogation style consists of stating simple facts and then just *blandly staring* at people. And they blow up at him because they know or assume they know what he *means*. The funny thing is that if no one over-reacted, and instead said 'Okay, I don't agree that it is an Althosian or anyone, but I do agree that something hinky is going on, what can we do to discover what that is?' things would run much smoother and they would have probably discovered the transmitter earlier. Now, by the end of the episode, Bates does have a bug up his butt about Teyla with this leaking over into the Althosians as a whole incidentally. My guess is that he was uncomfortable with her being included in an away team (or included so early with so little known about the Althosians at the start) and Sheppard's complete disregard for *facts* about the security leak just exacerbated it.
Childhood's End:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
Poisoning The Well: (Sheppard to Steve: We've been having these conversations for a couple weeks now)
Bates only.
Bates is guarding Steve and Weir mentions that he goes to the other planet (Hoffyn? Something with an H) to coordinate the move of Steve there for their testing of the Wraith blocking drug.
Underground:
Grodin Only.
Grodin is the one working on decrypting the Wraith data they stole from the Genii.
Notable Dialogue:
Weir: You might be happy to know that Sgt. Bates was able to broker a small trade agreement for food while you were gone.
Sheppard: Oh, he did, did he.
Weir: Yes, he did, but it's not a competition.
Sheppard: So who are these people?
Weir: They're traders. They call themselves the Manarians (spelling?). I'm sorry you weren't able to find the allies you were looking for John.
Weir is such a sly bitch. She likes Bates and Sheppard at odds. This is also the first mention of Bates leading an additional Away Team as well as heading base security.
Home:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
The Storm:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
If I have heard the name correctly, the world that Sheppard and Ford strong-arm into accepting the Atlantis refugees (Manarians- spelling?) is the world that Weir says Bates brokered the food trade agreement with in Underground.
The Eye:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
The Defiant One:
Neither Grodin nor Bates.
Part II for Episodes 13-18 is here.
(Part III for Episodes 18-20 located here.)
Finally, my Windows Media Player doesn't let me do screen-caps of video files and my WinDVD which does screen-cap plays the sound but not the video for the same files so I can't capture pictures of Bates or Grodin and maybe hug them and squeeze them and icon them and call them George.
Bastages.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-03-20 12:23 pm (UTC)Apparently there is a time-space continuum paradox in having them on in the same episode
I've often felt the same way about Zelenka and Grodin. In fact, I used to wonder earlier in the season if there was a budgetary restriction and they couldn't afford David Nykl and Craig Veroni at the same time. heh.
My question is how aware is he of this subsidiary role for Weir?
That's an excellent question.
The exchange between Weir and Sheppard in Underground suggests that Sheppard is aware of the way she's pitting them against each other, but I wonder if Bates is aware of it. I think he kind of has to be, unless she's just being a lot more open with Sheppard.
Grodin does a lot of scientific or operations exposition- valuable information, but not necessarily illuminative for his character or his interactions with the others.
Yes, and that is so irritating. *g*
no subject
Date: 2005-03-20 12:46 pm (UTC)Ah, that's it. They have hung a little pointer wheel on the wall with Grodin, Zelenka, and Bates' names and when they start writing a new episode they spin the pointer to see which 2nd-tier character they will pay this episode.
I think he kind of has to be, unless she's just being a lot more open with Sheppard.
I think he is aware, but I think she has been selectively open with Bates. I think she highlighted her concerns about the Althosians' access, security concerns in general and maybe even her concerns about Sheppard's unilateral belief in Teyla with him (this last may have been more oblique, though). Thus he will continue to confront Sheppard over Teyla because he sees that specifically as part of his job duties. Whether he has deduced that this role is a machination by Weir to balance Sheppard's regard for Teyla and not necessarily a true doubt, I'm not sure. But Bates isn't stupid or inter-personally unaware, just serious about his job. I can definitely see how he doesn't fit in with Sheppard and Ford and even McKay. He would never blatantly interject a joke or droll comment into a serious work discussion like they love to.
Grodin does a lot of scientific or operations exposition- valuable information, but not necessarily illuminative for his character or his interactions with the others.
Yes, and that is so irritating. *g*
God, yes! I may have only discovered that yesterday, but in a big way! He really is just friendly, nice and a damn blank slate.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-20 01:47 pm (UTC)And see, I'm getting so caught up in this fandom I even got me an icon! To go with comments like this one (and because he's pretty...). But I have no idea if it'll last, it all depends on if I can find more stories that are as brilliant as a few of those I've read. Only time will tell.
sigh. reposted.
Date: 2005-03-20 02:02 pm (UTC)The person sitting at the laptop in the first picture is Grodin.
And see, I'm getting so caught up in this fandom I even got me an icon!
You are ahead of me in that! I finally made my generic sci-fi icon this weekend and haven't managed any specifc Atlantis ones yet. Maybe by the time the second season starts...
Re: sigh. reposted.
Date: 2005-03-20 11:26 pm (UTC)I suck at making icons so I stole this from those who can make pretty ones. (It was an allowed steal, though.) You have such a pretty robot there yourself. Me I prefer the living, flesh and blood type, but to each their own... ;-)
Re: sigh. reposted.
Date: 2005-03-21 07:07 am (UTC)Yeah, I just have Paint to make icons and I'm not great at it, but unless someone else's really grabs me, I prefer to make my own. It's a thing.
You have such a pretty robot there yourself. Me I prefer the living, flesh and blood type, but to each their own... ;-)
It's the despair and pathos in his little robotic eye lights. Gets me hot.
;)